TV pundits

I have to say I don't appreciate too much of what they say (it's usually opinion - theirs) but I was shocked to hear Phil Neville come out with his attack on Tomas Rosicky on Sunday. What was it - if I was playing against him I'd have gone in two-footed to take him out? I mean, that says a helluva lot about the level Phil Neville was at as a player and confirms, for me the Fergie set-up, keeping in mind what Arsenal players were confronted with at Old Trafford way back when. I recall Reyes being kicked from pillar to post by The Nevilles plus Scoles on his first visit to Old Trafford, within minutes of the match starting.
But now, do we have to listen to pub-football logic being spouted by a thicko who happens to have been a pro footballer? NO is the answer - get the effer off!

Phil Neville, one of life's injustices. Wanker extraordinaire!!!!

jpr60 wrote:I have to say I don't appreciate too much of what they say (it's usually opinion - theirs) but I was shocked to hear Phil Neville come out with his attack on Tomas Rosicky on Sunday. What was it - if I was playing against him I'd have gone in two-footed to take him out? I mean, that says a helluva lot about the level Phil Neville was at as a player and confirms, for me the Fergie set-up, keeping in mind what Arsenal players were confronted with at Old Trafford way back when. I recall Reyes being kicked from pillar to post by The Nevilles plus Scoles on his first visit to Old Trafford, within minutes of the match starting.
But now, do we have to listen to pub-football logic being spouted by a thicko who happens to have been a pro footballer? NO is the answer - get the effer off!

Calm down, jpr. He was only joking.

Please tell me that you're joking when you're moaning about "what Arsenal players were confronted with at Old Trafford way back when"? They instigated most of the trouble.

Tilts, your bias against The Arsenal clouds your judgement.

Tilton wrote:

jpr60 wrote:I have to say I don't appreciate too much of what they say (it's usually opinion - theirs) but I was shocked to hear Phil Neville come out with his attack on Tomas Rosicky on Sunday. What was it - if I was playing against him I'd have gone in two-footed to take him out? I mean, that says a helluva lot about the level Phil Neville was at as a player and confirms, for me the Fergie set-up, keeping in mind what Arsenal players were confronted with at Old Trafford way back when. I recall Reyes being kicked from pillar to post by The Nevilles plus Scoles on his first visit to Old Trafford, within minutes of the match starting.
But now, do we have to listen to pub-football logic being spouted by a thicko who happens to have been a pro footballer? NO is the answer - get the effer off!

Calm down, jpr. He was only joking.

Please tell me that you're joking when you're moaning about "what Arsenal players were confronted with at Old Trafford way back when"? They instigated most of the trouble.

Yes, Keown getting in Van Nistelrooy's face was big, but that was only after Van Nistelrooy acted like a fairy to get Viera sent off. No, I'm talking about when Arsenal went out to play at Old Trafford with Reyes in the team for the first time - it didn't get the same media treatment but Reyes was literally kicked up in the air four times by The Brothers Neville and Scholes - it was blatant and clearly a tactic by the then Master Of Managers Alex Fergueson. He got away with murder. We have had to put up with what the media present as facts - facts are Fergueson was a primitive manager with primitive instincts i.e. Johnny Foreigner? Kick him out of the game. I Like to think we have progressed since then, although it's been a long time coming.

jak wrote:Tilts, your bias against The Arsenal clouds your judgement.

Not at all, jak. I deal in facts. Stone cold, hard facts.

jpr60 wrote:

Tilton wrote:

jpr60 wrote:I have to say I don't appreciate too much of what they say (it's usually opinion - theirs) but I was shocked to hear Phil Neville come out with his attack on Tomas Rosicky on Sunday. What was it - if I was playing against him I'd have gone in two-footed to take him out? I mean, that says a helluva lot about the level Phil Neville was at as a player and confirms, for me the Fergie set-up, keeping in mind what Arsenal players were confronted with at Old Trafford way back when. I recall Reyes being kicked from pillar to post by The Nevilles plus Scoles on his first visit to Old Trafford, within minutes of the match starting.
But now, do we have to listen to pub-football logic being spouted by a thicko who happens to have been a pro footballer? NO is the answer - get the effer off!

Calm down, jpr. He was only joking.

Please tell me that you're joking when you're moaning about "what Arsenal players were confronted with at Old Trafford way back when"? They instigated most of the trouble.

Yes, Keown getting in Van Nistelrooy's face was big, but that was only after Van Nistelrooy acted like a fairy to get Viera sent off. No, I'm talking about when Arsenal went out to play at Old Trafford with Reyes in the team for the first time - it didn't get the same media treatment but Reyes was literally kicked up in the air four times by The Brothers Neville and Scholes - it was blatant and clearly a tactic by the then Master Of Managers Alex Fergueson. He got away with murder. We have had to put up with what the media present as facts - facts are Fergueson was a primitive manager with primitive instincts i.e. Johnny Foreigner? Kick him out of the game. I Like to think we have progressed since then, although it's been a long time coming.

It wasn't just Keown acting disgracefully that day - there were 3 or 4 Arsenal players crowded around him, giving him sly digs. How was Van Nistelrooy acting like a fairy? Viera kicked out at him right in front of the ref, from memory. Viera got himself sent off (again). Great player but a dirty fecker was Viera.

Was the Reyes game you're talking about the following season? The game where Fabregas threw pizza at Sir Alex? Classy from Arsenal again.
Ronaldo took a kicking from Arsenal aswell but, unlike that "fairy" Reyes, didn't cry like a woman about it. Reyes was a good player but a bit of a pussy and way too lightweight for the Premiership. United targeted his weakness and it worked for them.

And I disagree with your comment about the most successful British manager ever, being primitive. Ferguson was indeed "Master of Managers", as you put it. Miles better than Wenger could ever dream of being. And your "Johnny Foreigner" argument doesn't stand up either. How many "Johnny Foreigners" did Sir Alex sign in his time?

I beg to differ but that's the way of the world.
1)Van Nistelrooy leapt back so that the ref could see that someone nasty was trying to kick him - and that was after Van Nistelrooy had pushed the "someone nasty" over, from behind, as was his wont.
2)Lauren put in a classic "take-him-out" tackle on Ronaldo once; Reyes was kicked from pillar-to-post by the combined thuggery (sponsored by that "great"manager) of Les Bros Neville and Scholes, one after the other.
IMO Fergueson's tactics were indeed brutal and, if he didn't get what he wanted from his players he reacted in a primitive way (remember Beckham's eyebrow?). His was a management from another time - he made sure he had the players (Les Nevilles, Scholes, Keane etc) to do the work. He achieved greatness, no doubt about that but it was of a certain type and from a certain time.

1) Van Nistelrooy leapt back to avoid being kicked by the Arsenal thug Viera.

2) There was more than the 1 bad tackle on Ronaldo, and you know it. And it wasn't just Ronaldo getting fouled badly either. Both teams were getting stuck in. It was a good battle with both sides giving it out. The difference was, United didn't cry about it like Arsenal did.

You mention Beckhams eyebrow. What about Wengers shove on Jose just this season? Would you agree that that was a primitive reaction?

I'll see your Nevilles, Scholes and Keane and raise you a Keown, Viera and Parlour.

Well I'd certainly take Keown, Viera & Parlour - meanwhile we've yet to see Gabriel.

No surprise that you didn't try to argue with the rest of the points raised in my last post........

In what sense would you take Keown, Viera and Parlour?

Whose Gabriel? Gabriel Heinze?

Oh come on Tilts, life's too short to keep arguing the point with someone like you - perhaps it's down to opinions again.

I'd rather have Keown, Vieira & Parlour in my team than the brothers Neville, Kean & Scholes.

Gabriel Armando de Abreu, the player we just signed from Villareal - he could be on similar hard-man lines to Martin Keown (I hope)!

jpr60 wrote:Oh come on Tilts, life's too short to keep arguing the point with someone like you - perhaps it's down to opinions again.

I'd rather have Keown, Vieira & Parlour in my team than the brothers Neville, Kean & Scholes.

Gabriel Armando de Abreu, the player we just signed from Villareal - he could be on similar hard-man lines to Martin Keown (I hope)!

Sorry to hear that you haven't got long left, jpr. Keep your chin up.

I can't comment on that Gabriel bloke's footballing ability as I don't remember seeing him play. You hope he's a hard-man though? I thought you said the game had moved on?

Hopefully the time when a manager or coach can say to his players "Nail opposition player X - kick the sh!te outa him" and get the job done is over. The refs of today dish out yellow cards for breathing heavy (although they do seem to miss some key foul-play from time-to-time). What I do appreciate, though are players who can look after themselves. Players who opponents wouldn't dare take liberties with. There is still room in the game for a Peter Storey, a Martin Keown even a Roy Keane (when he was able to control himself) and I'm thinking my man Gabriel could be just such a player - he certainly has "The Look" - and I hear he is "very direct" in his play. let's wait and see - perhaps tomorrow evening against Leicester.

Well if he's anything like those players you won't be seeing much of him. He'll be suspended most of the time.
If you're accusing Sir Alex of sending his players out to nail the opposition, surely you must accept that Wenger did the same? Or how else do you explain Arsenal's horrific disciplinary record after Wenger took over? Maybe he couldn't control his players? They wouldn't listen to him? Or maybe it was premeditated?

I think it was in the nature of the players who came to the club a touch raw - the likes of Vieira and Petit wanted to make themselves known and perhaps showed a wee too much aggressivity, given the nature of how English football is perceived abroad. It wouldn't have been Wenger to send his players out to chop the opposition - surely you realize that's not his way by now!

Oh no, it's never Wenger to blame is it?  

So how do you explain the behaviour of Martin Keown, Ray Parlour etc? They didn't come from abroad, as far as I know.

Your logic seems to be; if Man U players were aggressive it was because they were acting on orders from Sir Alex. If Arsenal players were aggressive it was nothing to do with Wenger. It was because they were foreign (except for the fact that many of them weren't).

Am I understanding this right???

Tilton wrote:Oh no, it's never Wenger to blame is it?  

So how do you explain the behaviour of Martin Keown, Ray Parlour etc? They didn't come from abroad, as far as I know.

Your logic seems to be; if Man U players were aggressive it was because they were acting on orders from Sir Alex. If Arsenal players were aggressive it was nothing to do with Wenger. It was because they were foreign (except for the fact that many of them weren't).

Am I understanding this right???

No darling, you're as confused as ever. It was Patrick Vieira who was more-often-than-not picking up cards when he first joined the club, along with Manu Petit to a somewhat lesser extent. Ray Parlour was a good honest work-horse, he didn't get into a lot of trouble on the pitch whereas Martin known was simply a hard bar steward and was picking up cards long before Wenger came on the scene. But the Manchester manager certainly sent his lads out under instructions, on more than one occasion and there we have the difference between the two managers.

I don't think that I am confused. We all know that Viera was a thug. Petit was a petulant fecker. Parlour was no saint and got plenty of cards. Keown was an ape.

Arsenal's disciplinary record after Wenger took over was shocking. Weren't concerns even raised at board level at one time? Obviously it wasn't Arsene's fault because nothing ever is. It must have just been that he had no control over his players.

Tilton wrote:I don't think that I am confused. We all know that Viera was a thug. Petit was a petulant fecker. Parlour was no saint and got plenty of cards. Keown was an ape.

Arsenal's disciplinary record after Wenger took over was shocking. Weren't concerns even raised at board level at one time? Obviously it wasn't Arsene's fault because nothing ever is. It must have just been that he had no control over his players.

Perhaps not confused, just un-informed and lacking in educated consideration regarding the subject.

It appears that I'm not uninformed and my memory was correct. I just googled it out of interest and the Arsenal board did raise concerns with Wenger about the shocking discipline of his players. Obviously it wasn't Arsene's fault though.

And I think that my assessment of those players was fair and considered.