Bolton then Bolton.

villanfromluton wrote:

jak wrote:

villanfromluton wrote:What you on about Jak, what have I said that is bollocks, except of course Poll being respected. As I said I have not seen the challenge, but it was a major talking point today and the majority of opinion was that it was a poor challenge and could have caused a lot of damage to the player. Luckily that isnt the case, but surely that doesnt lessen the offence?

Luton, what have you said that is bollocks? EVERYTHING you say is bollocks.

Ive always thought highly of you Jak

Not as highly as I think of me.

jpr60 wrote:

villanfromluton wrote:Just like Wenger, I havent seen the challenge by Gallas, but a well respected ref commented on talksport that it was a straight red card challenge. How can it not be compared to the Eduardo challenge purely on the basis that last nights was a physical game ?

Do you gunners old boys recall an incident between Wenger having a go at Martin Jol during a Derby game saying the ball should be kicked out cos two Arsenal players had collided with each other?
















Only problem is that well respected ref thought you didnt send a player off in the world cup until he had 3 yellow cards

At the risk of throwing in facts, the rules changed since Mart Jol encouraged his team to attack Arsenal when they had two players down - in those days it was a question of sportsmanship, now it's the ref who decides if and when a game should be stopped. Later on in the match another Bolton player was down but Bolton had possession and were chasing the game. Did they put the ball out of play? Did they feck'as like!
Gallas and Davies were going for a 50-50 ball, Davies nicked it first and Gallas caught him. When Eduardo was injured he had already played the ball and Taylor still lunged in on his standing foot from the side - an 'agricultural' challenge that was rightly red-carded.
Sorry to mess with your arguments there Lutes - oh and was the 'well respected' ref more capable than the ref who witnessed the incident at first hand and thought that Davies was perhaps taking advantage and trying to waste time as many of his team-mates were doing?

I'd suggest that you are guilty of wearing rose tinted glasses.Only gallas and Taylor know if they were going for the ball in the two incidents, the rest of us can only speculate.However, as i've said before in taylor's case he's a poor player.A player of Gallas' ability knows how to tackle and had he gone in qwith a side foot block tackle and missed the ball he'd have caught the player but the risk of injury would be minimal.As it was he came in at pace with what can only be described as a running stamp.IMO he knew what he was doing which makes him a cowardly bastard and to be honest i'm surprised you are defending him as it reflects poorly on Arsenal football club.
As for the kicking the ball out argument.Fact is that it is the refs decision.However, the dirty Frog cnut knew he'd topped Davies and must've known he'd hurt him.I believe the reason he didn't kick the ball out was feck all to do with rules but more to do with the fact he didn't want to take responsibility for his atrocious actions.
As a side note is it true what SSN reported yesterday that the Arsenal fans jeered davies as he was being stretchered off?
If that is true that is the most shameful thing about it.Where's the sportmanship gone from the game?

QBVILLA wrote:

jpr60 wrote:

villanfromluton wrote:Just like Wenger, I havent seen the challenge by Gallas, but a well respected ref commented on talksport that it was a straight red card challenge. How can it not be compared to the Eduardo challenge purely on the basis that last nights was a physical game ?

Do you gunners old boys recall an incident between Wenger having a go at Martin Jol during a Derby game saying the ball should be kicked out cos two Arsenal players had collided with each other
















Only problem is that well respected ref thought you didnt send a player off in the world cup until he had 3 yellow cards

At the risk of throwing in facts, the rules changed since Mart Jol encouraged his team to attack Arsenal when they had two players down - in those days it was a question of sportsmanship, now it's the ref who decides if and when a game should be stopped. Later on in the match another Bolton player was down but Bolton had possession and were chasing the game. Did they put the ball out of play? Did they feck'as like!
Gallas and Davies were going for a 50-50 ball, Davies nicked it first and Gallas caught him. When Eduardo was injured he had already played the ball and Taylor still lunged in on his standing foot from the side - an 'agricultural' challenge that was rightly red-carded.
Sorry to mess with your arguments there Lutes - oh and was the 'well respected' ref more capable than the ref who witnessed the incident at first hand and thought that Davies was perhaps taking advantage and trying to waste time as many of his team-mates were doing?

I'd suggest that you are guilty of wearing rose tinted glasses.Only gallas and Taylor know if they were going for the ball in the two incidents, the rest of us can only speculate.However, as i've said before in taylor's case he's a poor player.A player of Gallas' ability knows how to tackle and had he gone in qwith a side foot block tackle and missed the ball he'd have caught the player but the risk of injury would be minimal.As it was he came in at pace with what can only be described as a running stamp.IMO he knew what he was doing which makes him a cowardly bastard and to be honest i'm surprised you are defending him as it reflects poorly on Arsenal football club.
As for the kicking the ball out argument.Fact is that it is the refs decision.However, the dirty Frog cnut knew he'd topped Davies and must've known he'd hurt him.I believe the reason he didn't kick the ball out was feck all to do with rules but more to do with the fact he didn't want to take responsibility for his atrocious actions.
As a side note is it true what SSN reported yesterday that the Arsenal fans jeered davies as he was being stretchered off?
If that is true that is the most shameful thing about it.Where's the sportmanship gone from the game?

Your arguments are based on your opinions which, of course you're welcome to.
The Arsenal fans had had to put up with no end of time-wasting by several Bolton players, starting with the keeper, after they'd taken the lead. Consequently when Davies went down we all thought (as, perhaps did the ref) that he was faking injury to waste yet still more time - the time taken to treat the player on the pitch and then carry him off on a stretcher was considered to be more of the same, hence the jeering.
What's being conveniently overlooked in all this is that over the two games Bolton, as usual and as expected got well stuck into Arsenal, all over the pitch. Kevin Davies attacked Sagna with some sort of body-check after Sagna had cleared the ball at one stage, Fabregas was subjected to numerous fouls, often by our ex player Muamba who was obviously given a job to do, plus Robinson who committed so many fouls during the match I was surprised he didn't receive a red. The first game, Taylor (the cnut) kneeled on Fabragas' head when he was face down, pushed his head into the ground with his arm, left his boot in as he walked over him then pulled his hair. We're talking Bolton here, one of the dirtiest teams in the Premier League, so let's not get all excited when, for once, one of their players came off worse in a tackle!

JPR, as usual a very well written response.
Anyway.
I'm under no illusion that Bolton players have on several occasions dished it out but I was talking about the tackle by Gallas as an isolated incident.From what you are saying regarding the time wasting and foulplay by Muamba,K.Davies and Taylor are you suggesting that you believe Gallas intentionally topped Mark Davies as an act of retribution? If so, whilst to some degree it's understandable it's poor form coming from a professional footballer.As for the jeering, I was only going off what SSN reported.Your explaination is a fair answer and i'm sure now the fans who did mock Davies feel a bit ashamed of themselves as he was indeed not feigning injury.

QBVILLA wrote:JPR, as usual a very well written response.
Anyway.
I'm under no illusion that Bolton players have on several occasions dished it out but I was talking about the tackle by Gallas as an isolated incident.From what you are saying regarding the time wasting and foulplay by Muamba,K.Davies and Taylor are you suggesting that you believe Gallas intentionally topped Mark Davies as an act of retribution? If so, whilst to some degree it's understandable it's poor form coming from a professional footballer.As for the jeering, I was only going off what SSN reported.Your explaination is a fair answer and i'm sure now the fans who did mock Davies feel a bit ashamed of themselves as he was indeed not feigning injury.

What about Gallas feeling a bit ashamed for his action?

villanfromluton wrote:

QBVILLA wrote:JPR, as usual a very well written response.
Anyway.
I'm under no illusion that Bolton players have on several occasions dished it out but I was talking about the tackle by Gallas as an isolated incident.From what you are saying regarding the time wasting and foulplay by Muamba,K.Davies and Taylor are you suggesting that you believe Gallas intentionally topped Mark Davies as an act of retribution? If so, whilst to some degree it's understandable it's poor form coming from a professional footballer.As for the jeering, I was only going off what SSN reported.Your explaination is a fair answer and i'm sure now the fans who did mock Davies feel a bit ashamed of themselves as he was indeed not feigning injury.

What about Gallas feeling a bit ashamed for his action?

I believe Gallas went for a 50-50 and caught the player, end of. I doubt there was malice aforethought (although it seemed to me Gallas was adopting a defensive posture with his arms up as if expecting his opponent to come through him). I agree, in retrospect the jeering was well out of order but, at the time we (Gooners) were feeling a bit peeved at the way Bolton players were taking their time over everything.
Gallas feeling 'ashamed for his action'? I doubt it was intentional so, no. Stuff happens in football, players get injured and reckless challenges are made. If the foul was so bad i.e. intentional and over-the-top I think the ref would have sussed it straight away.
I'm reading all sorts of excuses from Bolton now how they all stopped when Davies was fouled (they didn't - Fabregas had to battle his way through a few challenges to get his shot in) - how it was the turning point of the match. Well, perhaps, if it had ended 2-2 and our goal was scored in the last quarter I might agree but it didn't, we scored two more goals - or perhaps the Bolton players were psychologically disturbed at seeing such violence on the field of play that they were unable to compete. You know what? It's all crap.

jpr60 wrote:

villanfromluton wrote:

QBVILLA wrote:JPR, as usual a very well written response.
Anyway.
I'm under no illusion that Bolton players have on several occasions dished it out but I was talking about the tackle by Gallas as an isolated incident.From what you are saying regarding the time wasting and foulplay by Muamba,K.Davies and Taylor are you suggesting that you believe Gallas intentionally topped Mark Davies as an act of retribution? If so, whilst to some degree it's understandable it's poor form coming from a professional footballer.As for the jeering, I was only going off what SSN reported.Your explaination is a fair answer and i'm sure now the fans who did mock Davies feel a bit ashamed of themselves as he was indeed not feigning injury.

What about Gallas feeling a bit ashamed for his action?

I believe Gallas went for a 50-50 and caught the player, end of. I doubt there was malice aforethought (although it seemed to me Gallas was adopting a defensive posture with his arms up as if expecting his opponent to come through him). I agree, in retrospect the jeering was well out of order but, at the time we (Gooners) were feeling a bit peeved at the way Bolton players were taking their time over everything.
Gallas feeling 'ashamed for his action'? I doubt it was intentional so, no. Stuff happens in football, players get injured and reckless challenges are made. If the foul was so bad i.e. intentional and over-the-top I think the ref would have sussed it straight away. I'm reading all sorts of excuses from Bolton now how they all stopped when Davies was fouled (they didn't - Fabregas had to battle his way through a few challenges to get his shot in) - how it was the turning point of the match. Well, perhaps, if it had ended 2-2 and our goal was scored in the last quarter I might agree but it didn't, we scored two more goals - or perhaps the Bolton players were psychologically disturbed at seeing such violence on the field of play that they were unable to compete. You know what? It's all crap.

Sorry JPR I can't go along with that.Referees are only human and they make mistakes.Like I said only Gallas knows if he intended to 'do' Davies, everyone else will speculate.The fact you alluded to the previous indiscretions by Bolton suggested to me that in your mind you thought it may well have been intended, and though not on a personal level deserved it as well

Seen the challenge, not nice and desrving of yellow at the very minimum. How Wiley can say that he has seen the incident and has nothing to add is a joke. Yes, football is a contact sport and people get injured, perhaps you will remember that JPR the next time an Arsenal player is crocked because of a foul

Thats probably cos he wants Wiltshere on loan and has been advised to come out with this comment. Fact is it was a poor challenge, no doubt about it.

jak wrote:http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/low/football/eng_prem/8474419.stm

Reality check, finally!
Amazing how stuff gets out of hand, people concentrate on one incident taken out of context and blow it up out of all proportion. Nice to see that Coyle has back-tracked, perhaps everyone else with an opinion reached through exaggerated interest might also think again.
And Lutes, I've lost track of the number of times I've seen Arsenal players hacked down with little or no punishment given to the perpertrators, going back to Bobby Collins and Billy Bremner when Leeds visited Highbury in the early '60's and tried to maim George Eastham. Skillful players have always been targets, as Cesc Fabregas is these days, Alex Hleb was a couple of years back and this poorly timed tackle was just that, poorly timed and not the intentional stuff that deserves serious attention.

Its a totally different ball game now compared to the 60's though JPR, though I do recall you having a whinge about John Carew chopping Hleb down a couple of seasons back when it was a forwards challenge who was tracking back, nothing more. Sometimes it seems that you have your red tinted goggles on. I recall players like Frank Mclintock, Peter Storey, Peter Simpson, not exactly shrinking violets were they. I have no problem or arguments about the Gallas challenge, should have been at least a yellow in todays game, but just remember good players make poor challenges as well as not so good players. Fabregas certainly can leave his foot in as well. I think Arsenal have a superb team playing superb football, but you have to understand that teams are going to battle against them

No free kick. The referee stood by his decision having reviewed the tackle after the match. The FA reviewed it and decided to take no further action.
The tackle was bad and mistimed but 'watch it', it's not malicious.
The furore was whipped up by a new manager who had just watched his team get it's arse kicked for the second time in a few days and was glad to have something to deflect the attention from him. He probably realises he's made a bad decision because, as it stands this team, Bolton, will be playing in the championship next season.
He's made a boo boo, in more ways than one.


Incidentally I'm glad Luton admits how well he remembers '60's football. Now, what about the 50's?

You say no free kick and then say the tackle was bad, make your mind up . The ref is a fool as even Stevie Wonder could see it was a bad tackle and dont think the FA can do anything as the ref has said he saw it and made the right call.

Dont agree with you about Owen Coyle, think the Bolton fans have every right to be encouraged by the two displays so far.

villanfromluton wrote:You say no free kick and then say the tackle was bad, make your mind up . The ref is a fool as even Stevie Wonder could see it was a bad tackle and dont think the FA can do anything as the ref has said he saw it and made the right call.

Dont agree with you about Owen Coyle, think the Bolton fans have every right to be encouraged by the two displays so far.

There WAS no free kick - fact. What I think doesn't matter.

Six goals against and two (gifted) for. ENCOURAGING???
Feck me, if that's encouraging how bad would discouraging be?

What more do you really think the Bolton fans expected Jak? They gave you two decent games, more than the fans would probably have expected.

The fact the referee somehow did not give a free kick is a disgrace, but unfortunately that is the standard of refereeing these days. Lets hope when it happens to your team, you and your other half dont come on whingeing about dirty players for having the cheek to challenge your players

jak wrote:

villanfromluton wrote:You say no free kick and then say the tackle was bad, make your mind up . The ref is a fool as even Stevie Wonder could see it was a bad tackle and dont think the FA can do anything as the ref has said he saw it and made the right call.

Dont agree with you about Owen Coyle, think the Bolton fans have every right to be encouraged by the two displays so far.

There WAS no free kick - fact. What I think doesn't matter.

Six goals against and two (gifted) for. ENCOURAGING???
Feck me, if that's encouraging how bad would discouraging be?

Thats the most sensible thing you have said in a long time

jak wrote:

villanfromluton wrote:You say no free kick and then say the tackle was bad, make your mind up . The ref is a fool as even Stevie Wonder could see it was a bad tackle and dont think the FA can do anything as the ref has said he saw it and made the right call.

Dont agree with you about Owen Coyle, think the Bolton fans have every right to be encouraged by the two displays so far.

There WAS no free kick - fact. What I think doesn't matter.

Six goals against and two (gifted) for. ENCOURAGING???
Feck me, if that's encouraging how bad would discouraging be?

In terms of having a debate it does.however, the main thing in this is that i'm right in my opinion and you are wrong

Phew, I'm glad we got that sorted jak. It's nice to be in the right and watch the others wriggle about a bit, eh?
Meanwhile it's tight at the top, ManU, Chelsea and us all with the same goal difference. These next couple of weeks are gonna take some watching! Bring'em on says I and, as always 'May The Best Team Win'!

jpr60 wrote:Phew, I'm glad we got that sorted jak. It's nice to be in the right and watch the others wriggle about a bit, eh?
Meanwhile it's tight at the top, ManU, Chelsea and us all with the same goal difference. These next couple of weeks are gonna take some watching! Bring'em on says I and, as always 'May The Best Team Win'!

Yes, jpr. I'm so glad you're here, you get no sense out of these Villa boys and senior midland exiles.