post mortem

So we got completely taken apart last night by Italy. Hopefully this will prove to be a watershed moment for English football both in terms of the players/management and the football we play on the pitch and media/fan expectation. We've been at this level since 1998 and as far as I can tell nothing has changed, we haven't moved on or tried to work out why we are so far behind the teams that win international football competitions and do something about it.

1998 - round of 16
2000 - didn't qualify from group
2002 - quarter final
2004 - quarter final
2006 - quarter final
2008 - didn't qualify for tournament
2010 - round of 16
2012 - quarter final

Despite the ridiculous hype that the media whips up about the England team, during this time 'the golden generation' have NEVER been capable of winning the Euros or World Cup. Important to remember though they are in and around the top ten its just that the really top teams are playing football on a different level to England and until that is addressed England can't compete. My concern from watching this tournament is that other countries have been watching and learning from the best and will catch and overtake us in the future unless there is a complete rethink on the way we teach kids and bring them through the system into the professional game.
I've read a lot of criticism of the premier league suggesting that enough youngsters don't get a chance to come through and play at the top level as they do in Germany. IMO its because they aren't good enough. I also here talk of build for the next Euros and I think that's cloud cuckoo land too. Where are these players that will be playing at the level Germany, Italy, Spain and Portugal are playing coming from? There might be one or two 15/16 yo in the country that make the team in 2016 but we won't have a squad of players that can play at the level we require for at LEAST a decade, probably closer to 15 years. During this time the FA have a lot of work to do and hopefully Roy will be involved in this as well as ensuring we qualify for tournaments to give the younger players coming through a taste of whats to come. Starting from scratch in qualification and risking not making the tournament stage of the next world cup would be a massive mistake but an even bigger mistake would be sticking with exactly the same bunch we've seen in this tournament.
Its time for some ballsy management, fresh tactics and a complete overall of the way we teach and nurture our football talent and play the beautiful game.

The Premier league hustle and bustle has a major part to play.. unfortunately i can't see much changing in the coming years..

We have had Sven the chilled manager.. Capello the hard liner and now Woy the English put ur arm round the players...

Last night was embarrassing.. this Italian team aren't a patch on previous Italian teams and yet they controlled the game from 20 minutes in..

We just have to face facts and say we aren't good enough.. we CANNOT play 4-4-2.. we are light in midfield.. the four team into the semi's all have a match winner we don't have one.. when i say match winner i mean in big big Internationals..

We need to play three in the middle.. ive said it from day one.. even then the gulf in class is huge.. Germany with one up top but they have Schwientieger and Podolski in support while we have Young and Milner

When was the last time we produced a player like Pirlo or Ozil.. Wilshire is the closest thing but i bet we play him in a 4-4-2 and screw him up..

Big changes needed..

Didn't Italy play more or less a 4-4-2 yesterday? Well they played with two forward for most the game, Balotelli and Cassano.

It's not just Wiltshire that is the answer as you seem to think, there are been loads of young players that come through and people pin their hopes one, which you seem to be doing now.

England have a very similar player to Pirlo in Scholes and he has hardly ever been used correctly at international level. We needed a player that will control play in the centre of the park, and we had one for years and didn't utilize him.

roadoftrinity wrote:Didn't Italy play more or less a 4-4-2 yesterday? Well they played with two forward for most the game, Balotelli and Cassano.

It's not just Wiltshire that is the answer as you seem to think, there are been loads of young players that come through and people pin their hopes one, which you seem to be doing now.

England have a very similar player to Pirlo in Scholes and he has hardly ever been used correctly at international level. We needed a player that will control play in the centre of the park, and we had one for years and didn't utilize him.

Yes and they made the semi final.. we haven't and can't keep the ball.. and we shouldn't play 4-4-2..

Scholes highlights the situation perfectly.. if he hasn't been used properly it's because we try and fit our stars in.. i also recall Scholes going couple of years without scoring for us too..

Wilshire won't solve all of our problems but i think he is the one player that has something the other midfielders dont..

Do you really feel that just playing a different formation will help England keep the ball? With the players we had available, all you could do really is push Milner inside to make a midfield 3, can't see that helping us keep the ball to much.

Englands problem seems very similar to problems we have at Villa, a complete lack of movement from players which means that we give the the ball away often as their aren't people on for the pass.

roadoftrinity wrote:Do you really feel that just playing a different formation will help England keep the ball? With the players we had available, all you could do really is push Milner inside to make a midfield 3, can't see that helping us keep the ball to much.

Englands problem seems very similar to problems we have at Villa, a complete lack of movement from players which means that we give the the ball away often as their aren't people on for the pass.

movement is almost non existent in the English game unless we're talking about chasing the ball. Every time the Italians had the ball there were several options. When we had the ball often there were none, the ball was played and we lost it or just hoofed upfield. Passing isn't anywhere near good enough either, accuracy/ weight of pass is poor for players at this level and a real lack of vision.
Scholesey was a good player and would've been an asset in 2006 & 2010 but not sure he alone would make that much difference. We need the best part of the squad to be good on the ball, and be able to pass, find and create space and press other teams. This sitting back shit really pisses me off, every time we had the ball the Italians pressed us to win the ball back whilst we got nowhere near their midfield when they had the ball.

I've always been amazed at the level of technical skill youngsters on "The Continent" have. In England we tend to focus youngsters on getting big'n tough, on getting them super-fit which results in a lot of good, healthy, physical players who can run all day but meanwhile, we've left the perhaps more talented youngster behind.
In Switzerland (and other European countries) kids play on smaller pitches until they're about 16. It allows them to develop technical skills - in England (I'm told) we're thinking of modifying the pitch sizes for youngsters too - better late than never.
There have been loads of stories of players being rejected in England for being too small, too frail when they were young and eager to become professionals - Ian Wright springs to mind, he finally turned pro aged 24!
We'll catch up in due course and perhaps we'll be able to combine our more physical approach with technical abilities. Meanwhile young Jack Wilshere seems to have what's necessary, as does The Ox (although he might be an update on Roone, with pace) - I'm hoping the Next Generation will start to show what we can do at all levels of the game.

jpr60 wrote:I've always been amazed at the level of technical skill youngsters on "The Continent" have. In England we tend to focus youngsters on getting big'n tough, on getting them super-fit which results in a lot of good, healthy, physical players who can run all day but meanwhile, we've left the perhaps more talented youngster behind.
In Switzerland (and other European countries) kids play on smaller pitches until they're about 16. It allows them to develop technical skills - in England (I'm told) we're thinking of modifying the pitch sizes for youngsters too - better late than never.
There have been loads of stories of players being rejected in England for being too small, too frail when they were young and eager to become professionals - Ian Wright springs to mind, he finally turned pro aged 24!
We'll catch up in due course and perhaps we'll be able to combine our more physical approach with technical abilities. Meanwhile young Jack Wilshere seems to have what's necessary, as does The Ox (although he might be an update on Roone, with pace) - I'm hoping the Next Generation will start to show what we can do at all levels of the game.

I think this change in pitch size can only be a good thing for the youngsters and hopefully when St Georges gets into full swing there will be a strong emphasis on coaching technical skills. Its just a question of time, I don't think there are any quick fixes so 10 years minimum until the senior national team starts to see the results.