Jpr..

jak wrote:

ADRIAN_1976 wrote:Arsenal make enough money from matchday turn over champ lge money and sky tv money to be able to pay the wages..

Maybe not the 250k a week like Man City but be able to compete..

Wenger has made some blatant mistakes recently.. Man U since the glaziers have come in haven't spent massive amounts on players. Not buying 30M stars ( except Berbatov ) etc and have recouped 70 odd million for Ronaldo but still compete for titles and have reached champions league finals recently..

Wenger ignored key issues.. Like a top keeper when he persisted with Almunia and co.. Or the need for a CB a few seasons ago..

They have never replaced Viera and have always been known to have a soft centre..

Let numerous contracts run down since David Dein has left..

Last summer Wenger blindly let the window run down when everyone knew Nasri and Fabregas would leave and instead being pro active in getting players in didthered and ended up with the likes of Benayoun..

The likes of Ba and Huntlear will be good additions but all they will solve is reaching 4th. The damage has been done for challenging for titles and champions leagues..

Also this season is the first time Wenger fans have actually thought he doesn't have it in him to build another title winning team...

The Arsenal offer RvP £5m and 150K a week but Man U, who don't spend massive amounts on players, offered him £250K a week on top of the £24M transfer fee for the 29 year old. So much for not spendinding massive amounts?

You know what i mean.. they haven't gone to the extortionate lengths to stay in the title race.. RvP is a special player sometimes you haver to break the bank for those type of players..

The thing is Man U won't go bankrupt they will stay there or there abouts.. so why is is that Arsenal who were on a par with them have declined... it's mainly been because of bad decisions over contracts and buying players.. IF you were challenging then the only player you would've most likely lost is Fabregas.. simples.

When was the last time Arsenal were on par with Man Utd? 5/6/7 years ago now. United have spent big since then. The side that lost the Manc derby last season actually cost more than the City side despite the accusation that City were buying their silverware. There has been a massive change since Viera left Arsenal. Back then it was more of an even playing field with the top players all getting comparable wages. Not now, and Arsenal as massive as they are cannot compete. A sad state of affairs and why I as a Villa fan am resigned to never being able to compete. Football is dying on it's arsr as a competition.

Come off it.. Arsenal have a 60K stadium and charge £60 as an average price.. they fill it virtually every week.. plus the money they get they can compete with Man U a lot better then they are attempting or pulling the wool over peoples eyes..

Wenger has chose to ignore key issues.. he has replaced big strong players like Ljunberg Pires Bergkamp Henry Viera Petit with midgets and people who can't grind out results.. the likes of Matta Falcoa ( just examples ) have been over looked for the likes of Denilson Cygan and co.. obv players who have done well have left because they could see they won't be winning anything at Arsenal...

Your right it was 5/6 years ago but the decline started then because key issues weren't rectified.. people could see a GK a CB DM were needed but they weren't brought in.. Arsenal didn't need to pay 30M and 200K for those players at the time so breaking the bank wasn't needed..

Last summer the key issues of Nasri and Fabregas weren't addressed.. to sell those two players and have your back ups as Arteta ( good player as he is ) and Benayoun in the last minute was ridiculous.. Fergie would never get caught with his pants down like that he would have players lined up.. Then it happened this season too.. RvP gone.. Giroud is a good player to have in the squad but he isn't your main man to replace RvP..

They can compete they have chose not to.. due to maybe board not releasing funds or Wenger not seeing the obvious...

As Jak said in the other thread.. Fergie would not stand for Rosiscky poncing around admiring Michu's advance to goal.. Maybe Wenger can stand for it.......

Ades. you say Fergie would never get caught with his pants down, has he sorted out the midfield problem he had at the start of last season that resulted in Scholes coming back halfway through the season?

As I have said before, the lack of knowing what is happening with the finances is what seems to be annoying the Arsenal fans, has the stadium been paid for now, am sure Jak and JP know, I honestly dont. However, when Ades is saying the slide started 5/6 years ago, they couldnt really compete at that time financially I would have thought because of the new stadium. The structure of the premier league has changed massively with the money from Chelsea and Man City and it hasnt made for a better competition IMHO, just clubs striving to remain in the league. If those two clubs or Man Utd want your best players, they will just get them, even if it means them sitting on their arses on the subs bench

villanfromluton wrote:Ades. you say Fergie would never get caught with his pants down, has he sorted out the midfield problem he had at the start of last season that resulted in Scholes coming back halfway through the season?

As I have said before, the lack of knowing what is happening with the finances is what seems to be annoying the Arsenal fans, has the stadium been paid for now, am sure Jak and JP know, I honestly dont. However, when Ades is saying the slide started 5/6 years ago, they couldnt really compete at that time financially I would have thought because of the new stadium. The structure of the premier league has changed massively with the money from Chelsea and Man City and it hasnt made for a better competition IMHO, just clubs striving to remain in the league. If those two clubs or Man Utd want your best players, they will just get them, even if it means them sitting on their arses on the subs bench

Did they lose the title on goal difference and are top this year

Fergie has kept his side in the title race two seasons running.. come on Lutes

Arsenal were in title races during those times and fell short because of a key few players.. not 200K mega stars.. its been a decline that has got to this point..

Arsenal are losing to Olympiakos at the moment.

ADRIAN_1976 wrote:Come off it.. Arsenal have a 60K stadium and charge £60 as an average price.. they fill it virtually every week.. plus the money they get they can compete with Man U a lot better then they are attempting or pulling the wool over peoples eyes..

Wenger has chose to ignore key issues.. he has replaced big strong players like Ljunberg Pires Bergkamp Henry Viera Petit with midgets and people who can't grind out results.. the likes of Matta Falcoa ( just examples ) have been over looked for the likes of Denilson Cygan and co.. obv players who have done well have left because they could see they won't be winning anything at Arsenal...

Your right it was 5/6 years ago but the decline started then because key issues weren't rectified.. people could see a GK a CB DM were needed but they weren't brought in.. Arsenal didn't need to pay 30M and 200K for those players at the time so breaking the bank wasn't needed..

Last summer the key issues of Nasri and Fabregas weren't addressed.. to sell those two players and have your back ups as Arteta ( good player as he is ) and Benayoun in the last minute was ridiculous.. Fergie would never get caught with his pants down like that he would have players lined up.. Then it happened this season too.. RvP gone.. Giroud is a good player to have in the squad but he isn't your main man to replace RvP..They can compete they have chose not to.. due to maybe board not releasing funds or Wenger not seeing the obvious...

As Jak said in the other thread.. Fergie would not stand for Rosiscky poncing around admiring Michu's advance to goal.. Maybe Wenger can stand for it.......

I concur with the points you make, it's true that certain issues that were plain to see were not addressed.
You're also right in saying that all our midfield players seem to be clones of one and other. There's plenty of skill but there is no powerful player there.

Jak all I'm saying is that I think you could've won a title and a few more trophies if it wasn't for errors Wenger and the board made..

There wasn't the need to pay extortionate fees.. Chelsea and Man City came with there money but u lot should've still been in the mix but slowly let it drift..

Id love to see Wenger turn it round and win the title next year but I think it might not happen again.. Shame really..

[quote="ADRIAN_1976"]Come off it.. Arsenal have a 60K stadium and charge £60 as an average price.. they fill it virtually every week.. plus the money they get they can compete with Man U a lot better then they are attempting or pulling the wool over peoples eyes..


quote]

Basic maths based on your figures:

60x 60,000 = £3.6m

Lets say for arguments sake there are 30 homes games per season including cup games,depending on having a decent run

£3.6m x 30 = £108m

That's the gate receipts

Now for arguments sake they pay RVP £200k a week = £10.4m per year
The average wage for a first team player at Arsenal, based on media speculation so allegedly we're talking £50k a week conservatively speaking.
£50k x 52weeks =
£2.6m x
25 players
= £65M

So that is 10% of gate receipts on one player?
How many players are on Arsenal's books?
How many staff are employed by Arsenal?
How much do they have to pay for services?

No doubt about it with the stadium, location,Sky money and merchandising they are one of Europe's giants but they aren't anywhere near the size of United nor do they have the bottomless pot that City and Chelsea have. Do you honestly think they can afford to have 5 or 6 players on £10m a year contracts? Some fecking businessman you are, Mark would make a better Asian than you

Come of it... U don't know what sponsorship merchandise revenue the have coming in.. The VIP boxes food match day programme..

You have taken just one example of RvP and used to it for the whole picture.. We are talking about everything.. If Arsenal had done and taken the right steps to be successfull then then RVP head might not have been turned by another club and he might've stayed on less money a week then the reported 250k a week he is on.. If he is on that much rather then a figure plucked up.. Plus why would they need 5 or 6 on that I doubt Man U have 5 or 6 players on 250K a week.. Arsenal let people's contract run down that has nothing to do with match day revenue does it.. They didn't address key issues that others could see is that down to RvP and match day revenue too

Stick to managing the under 5's and thinking Doyle is the answer to finishing top four

ADRIAN_1976 wrote:Come of it... U don't know what sponsorship merchandise revenue the have coming in.. The VIP boxes food match day programme..

You have taken just one example of RvP and used to it for the whole picture.. We are talking about everything.. If Arsenal had done and taken the right steps to be successfull then then RVP head might not have been turned by another club and he might've stayed on less money a week then the reported 250k a week he is on.. If he is on that much rather then a figure plucked up.. Plus why would they need 5 or 6 on that I doubt Man U have 5 or 6 players on 250K a week.. Arsenal let people's contract run down that has nothing to do with match day revenue does it.. They didn't address key issues that others could see is that down to RvP and match day revenue too

Stick to managing the under 5's and thinking Doyle is the answer to finishing top four

You're talking shit and you know it. I actually said £200k a week and the rest on an average of £50k a week, which was actually being kind on your argument. How much do you reckon Ferdinand,Vidic,Evra,Rooney,Nani,Valencia,Sholes,Giggs,Young,Valencia and Carrick are on? I'd be surprised if any are on less than £80k a week wouldn't you?
The reason I said five or six was more to compare with the current champions City who it's fair to say are the current big wage payers.
Basic economics Hussain tell you that kind of spending isn't sustainable, hence why Villa couldn't maintain the wage bill we had.
And what you on about re Doyle?

Arsenal aren't Villa..

They average 60K £60 tickets. Champions league season after season getting thru group stages.. Not like us average gate 30K half the ticket price.. Why are u comparing our dream to Arsenals.. They reportedly have the highest match day revenue in Europe along with there earnings from Champions League being on a par with Man U..

Arsenal can afford to pay wages around 100K a week because what they get in from revenue.. If United can do it then why not Arsenal.. Not every player had to be on 100K plus..

I think ur getting confused by where Arsenal are now and what they need to throw money wise to compete again rather then what I'm saying that since the Invincibles days fundamental mistakes have been made in not addressing contract lengths and players being brought in to address the short comings in the team and could've easily got them a title and trophy or two ( obv no guarantees ) so when those issues where not addressed the slide began which led to players leaving for pastures new.. RvP doesn't strike me like the Adebayor type to feck off to another club for more money IF he had won trophies at Arsenal..

Like I said you have picked up one point regarding RvP wages and used it for ur arguement.. RvPs wage at Man U isn't the reason Arsenal are tenth.. It's the flaws that were ignored and not addressed which led to him deciding if he wants to win trophies he needs to leave... My point is Arsenal have only themselves to blame for being in this situation....

P.s are you Ivan Gazidis in disguise

ADRIAN_1976 wrote:Arsenal aren't Villa..

They average 60K £60 tickets. Champions league season after season getting thru group stages.. Not like us average gate 30K half the ticket price.. Why are u comparing our dream to Arsenals.. They reportedly have the highest match day revenue in Europe along with there earnings from Champions League being on a par with Man U..

Arsenal can afford to pay wages around 100K a week because what they get in from revenue.. If United can do it then why not Arsenal.. Not every player had to be on 100K plus..

I think ur getting confused by where Arsenal are now and what they need to throw money wise to compete again rather then what I'm saying that since the Invincibles days fundamental mistakes have been made in not addressing contract lengths and players being brought in to address the short comings in the team and could've easily got them a title and trophy or two ( obv no guarantees ) so when those issues where not addressed the slide began which led to players leaving for pastures new.. RvP doesn't strike me like the Adebayor type to feck off to another club for more money IF he had won trophies at Arsenal..

Like I said you have picked up one point regarding RvP wages and used it for re while arguement.. RvPs wage at Man U isn't the reason Arsenal are tenth.. It's the flaws that were ignored and not addressed which led to him deciding if he wants to win trophies he needs to leave... My point is Arsenal have only themselves to blame for being in this situation....

Have you turned into Mark and lost the ability to read? I know full well that Villa aren't Arsenal you dipshit and didn't realise I needed to spell it out to you. If Villa cannot sustain £50k a week wages then it follows (and seems pretty bloody obvious) that Arsenal cannot throw £100k a week wages around either you plank, let alone have players on City/United £250k a week bonanzas, hence the comparison. How the feck do you know whether RVP would have stayed at Arsenal with double the money on offer? You are listening to the likes of Talksport and believing all the propaganda. What I will say is that Arsenal were one of the pioneers of ridiculous wages when they gave Campbell £100k a week. Thus raising the bar for all the top players and for the likes of City and Chelsea to tempt the players to them rather than Arsenal they had to offer even more. They took it to levels that are outside the coffers of even Arsenal.
I'll have a job at Hussain corporation and show you how to make good money. However I want a good company car, not a shitty Micra.

Oh and United are far bigger globally than Arsenal. Arsenal, although one of the traditional big 6 of England weren't even the biggest club in North London until Wenger turned up. The fact they can fill a 60k stadium is testament to Wenger in itself.

P.S Are you David Icke in disguise?

Started the name calling and verbal bullying now I see

You mentioned Villa not sustaining the extortionate wages which has little to do with this topic about Arsenals Demise but whatever helps in ur discussion about RvP and 200K I guess

Just like I don't know if RvP would've stayed how do u know Arsenal with its revenue and year on year champions lge qualifying can't pay 100K to its top talent..

Anyway you've taken the debate totally away from there Demise n reluctance to rectifying there issues by banging on about there economics and 200k wages..

You sure your not Ivan Gazidis the way your focussing solely on the wages part if not I'm sure he will give you a job and a new bike to go with it too

If you cannot see the relevance then debate is lost on you. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and yours is wrong.

If you say so

QBVILLA wrote:If you cannot see the relevance then debate is lost on you. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and yours is wrong.

ADRIAN_1976 wrote:If you say so

Glad that's settled. Cheers

Ive lost the will to live reading the shite from you two

Good. Now fcuk off

QBVILLA wrote:Good. Now fcuk off

Finally we agree on something.