Andy Carroll to start against France

Its what we are best at, and its what we must develope, my point use this pace and hit teams hard, last time we played a friendly against the Germans we did just that and ran them of the park (2009 i think) the Germans tried to adapt the same kind of play at the World Cup whilst we went back to the traditional long ball game.

Then a year later they made us look like the Milton Keynes Under 9's Girls team.

Ezekiel 25:17 wrote:Its what we are best at, and its what we must develope, my point use this pace and hit teams hard, last time we played a friendly against the Germans we did just that and ran them of the park (2009 i think) the Germans tried to adapt the same kind of play at the World Cup whilst we went back to the traditional long ball game.

Then a year later they made us look like the Milton Keynes Under 9's Girls team.

Guess what, Jesus. I AGREE WITH YOU.

We have had players, English players who could pass a ball and be dynamic - I'm thinking Alan Ball in particuler but there was Alan Hudson too. What we've never done is encourage the technical ethic in English football, we've always patted the Stan Bowles', the Charlie Georges on the head and said, "Yeh, great - but not for the England team". OK, Bally was the exception but he had to run his guts out to gain acceptance at national level.
Right now we've got Jack Wilshere who, IMO has the lot. He's got the technique (and is allowed to express it at his club, where he's being given an all-round education with plenty of clever, technical, foreign players around him) plus that good-old English oomph. If he doesn't make the cut at full international level then I'll be a monkey's uncle. We'll just have to wait and let things develop. As it stands today there's no development whatsoever in the England team - let's hope that the talent comes through sooner rather than later.

jak wrote:Mal, it aint difficult to pass a ball to someone in your own colours, it really isn't.

It is if your core game skills have been developed in the UK, and that's not just at this time, its always been like that, the characteristic of the British game is in the same way as defending is the main characteristic or the Italian game. Its what we do. Look at the most successful teams in the English game Liverpool and Manchester Utd, how have they done it, Route 1 football fast and pacey, and in the domestic game its worked for a very long time, and for a very long time we dominated Europe, IMO the downfall to the lack of success Arsenal have had is because they adopt a very European style of football, tight passing skills, pretty football, problem is you will always come up against a side that do it better than you because the oppositon are playing teams like this week in and week out doing just that, and out you go.

If and when we finally get a manager that catches on to the fact that we have players who's qualities are all about pace, that can take on opposing players and beat them we may do better, IMO its the only way, otherwise we will keep getting turned over, and we will never develope an intricate passing game, or a passing game, never happen.

It's not the talent that's the problem - we're a nation of footballing fanatics, we'll always have a supply of talent. It's the coaching at the very grass roots. 11 year olds playing 7 a side of full pitches, fitness over flair, strength over technique. The whole system needs an upheaval - but we won't see the benefits until the next generation. It's a bleak future for England. We need to accept we're a second rate footballing nation while the current set up exists.

Ezekiel 25:17 wrote:It's not the talent that's the problem - we're a nation of footballing fanatics, we'll always have a supply of talent. It's the coaching at the very grass roots. 11 year olds playing 7 a side of full pitches, fitness over flair, strength over technique. The whole system needs an upheaval - but we won't see the benefits until the next generation. It's a bleak future for England. We need to accept we're a second rate footballing nation while the current set up exists.

FECK ME !!!!! Twice in one day. (faint emote). You're right.

jpr60 wrote:We have had players, English players who could pass a ball and be dynamic - I'm thinking Alan Ball in particuler but there was Alan Hudson too. What we've never done is encourage the technical ethic in English football, we've always patted the Stan Bowles', the Charlie Georges on the head and said, "Yeh, great - but not for the England team". OK, Bally was the exception but he had to run his guts out to gain acceptance at national level.
Right now we've got Jack Wilshere who, IMO has the lot. He's got the technique (and is allowed to express it at his club, where he's being given an all-round education with plenty of clever, technical, foreign players around him) plus that good-old English oomph. If he doesn't make the cut at full international level then I'll be a monkey's uncle. We'll just have to wait and let things develop. As it stands today there's no development whatsoever in the England team - let's hope that the talent comes through sooner rather than later.

Thats my very point Jpr, Stan Bowles, Charlie George where players that had great skills, they had the ability to go forward singularly and destroy teams, and did, that's the difference, they didn't require 20 passes to set up the goal, they went for it, i can give you a better and probably the best example of head down and go for it football, Paul Gascoigne, many many times did you see him turn defenders, go for goal with a single mentality to only score, his best ever goal v Scotland was just that, at that moment no other player in the England team existed, he wanted the goal, we have players like that now, not as good, but with that bull headed mentality, we just, are not using that.

ADRIAN_1976 wrote:

villainies wrote:That was a comprehensive beating. We can't rely on too many youngsters.

Shall we rely on the lads that couldnt score against Algeria and got BATTERED 4-1 by a German team who started of wiht youngsters and stuck with them...

How many times do I have to write this?

Germany didn't start from scratch. The team that started against us in the world cup had 6 or 7 from the previous World Cup on the pitch. Young they may have been but also experienced.

villainies wrote:

ADRIAN_1976 wrote:

villainies wrote:That was a comprehensive beating. We can't rely on too many youngsters.

Shall we rely on the lads that couldnt score against Algeria and got BATTERED 4-1 by a German team who started of wiht youngsters and stuck with them...

How many times do I have to write this?

Germany didn't start from scratch. The team that started against us in the world cup had 6 or 7 from the previous World Cup on the pitch. Young they may have been but also experienced.

So what you're saying is, they started with youngsters and stuck with them?

Ezekiel 25:17 wrote:It's not the talent that's the problem - we're a nation of footballing fanatics, we'll always have a supply of talent. It's the coaching at the very grass roots. 11 year olds playing 7 a side of full pitches, fitness over flair, strength over technique. The whole system needs an upheaval - but we won't see the benefits until the next generation. It's a bleak future for England. We need to accept we're a second rate footballing nation while the current set up exists.

I would completely agree about the method and about the manager or coach, i wouldn't agree we are 2nd rate, we are different, there is no way i can prove my point, but i would put good money on the fact that if we dismantled this flat back 4 and flat midfield and went all out for pace incorporating players like Lennon, Young, Agbonlahor, Walcott, maybe Johnson, Gerrard in midfield Ashely Cole and Johnson out wide, i would match us against anybody, all your Spanish sides and your Italian sides, Germans etc need time on the ball look at any game in the Spanish leagues, if they can't hit a ball around without a player moving no more than a couple of yards within his box area, then that player is crap, its like watching a marble on a bagattel board, poing poing poing and in the net, difference is we have a player like Rooney and others that picks up the ball in midfield, grunts, and wants to run straight at goal, phuk me you can't expect to complicate things like crafting a goal out of superb passing skills i'll say not, this is England.

Ezekiel 25:17 wrote:Its what we are best at, and its what we must develope, my point use this pace and hit teams hard, last time we played a friendly against the Germans we did just that and ran them of the park (2009 i think) the Germans tried to adapt the same kind of play at the World Cup whilst we went back to the traditional long ball game.

Then a year later they made us look like the Milton Keynes Under 9's Girls team.

And guess what, that same German manager modeled the tactics of the new look German team for the world cup, incorporating young and old but pacey players like Ozil on what, the England team he faced and lost to just a year earlier, and he said so, and he said after the friendly game to England, he was caught wrong footed, he commented he'd never seen an England team play with such determination and pace, John Terry said the same thing, why didn't Capello employ that tactic again....who knows.

Malachite wrote:

Ezekiel 25:17 wrote:Its what we are best at, and its what we must develope, my point use this pace and hit teams hard, last time we played a friendly against the Germans we did just that and ran them of the park (2009 i think) the Germans tried to adapt the same kind of play at the World Cup whilst we went back to the traditional long ball game.

Then a year later they made us look like the Milton Keynes Under 9's Girls team.

And guess what, that same German manager modeled the tactics of the new look German team for the world cup, incorporating young and old but pacey players like Ozil on what, the England team he faced and lost to just a year earlier, and he said so, and he said after the friendly game to England, he was caught wrong footed, he commented he'd never seen an England team play with such determination and pace, John Terry said the same thing, why didn't Capello employ that tactic again....who knows.

Probably because he didn't know WHAT tactic he'd employed.

jak wrote:

villainies wrote:

ADRIAN_1976 wrote:

villainies wrote:That was a comprehensive beating. We can't rely on too many youngsters.

Shall we rely on the lads that couldnt score against Algeria and got BATTERED 4-1 by a German team who started of wiht youngsters and stuck with them...

How many times do I have to write this?

Germany didn't start from scratch. The team that started against us in the world cup had 6 or 7 from the previous World Cup on the pitch. Young they may have been but also experienced.

So what you're saying is, they started with youngsters and stuck with them?

11 of the squad over 25 in 2010, 14 in 2006. Not really a massive difference is it?

villainies wrote:

jak wrote:

villainies wrote:

ADRIAN_1976 wrote:

villainies wrote:That was a comprehensive beating. We can't rely on too many youngsters.

Shall we rely on the lads that couldnt score against Algeria and got BATTERED 4-1 by a German team who started of wiht youngsters and stuck with them...

How many times do I have to write this?

Germany didn't start from scratch. The team that started against us in the world cup had 6 or 7 from the previous World Cup on the pitch. Young they may have been but also experienced.

So what you're saying is, they started with youngsters and stuck with them?

11 of the squad over 25 in 2010, 14 in 2006. Not really a massive difference is it?

Except that it's still a whole load of new faces that had to come in to maintain that statistic.