Desperation Day

Whilst some of the January-window moves will have been thought out over the weeks before much of the rumours reek of desperation, either on the part of the news media or, as in the Liverpool/Torres/Chelsea story, the clubs themselves.
OK, nobody would have foreseen Liverpool sinking so low this season, nor Chelsea taking such a dip in form for that matter but shunting ridiculous sums of money around ("Bravo" Mr Abramovitch, yet again) seems like little short of panic.
I know we ain't perfect but despite our failings (and some pretty unpleasant rants by people calling themselves Arsenal fans) I'm glad The Arsenal aren't caught up in this desperation - long may our apparent good club management continue.

Yeh keep to the moral high ground, find some clubs developing players let them spend all that money on them and then go talking to the lads parents just before they hit 17 so that the first proffesional contract he signs is for you and the developing club gets squat

Avfc_4eva_Sotc wrote:Yeh keep to the moral high ground, find some clubs developing players let them spend all that money on them and then go talking to the lads parents just before they hit 17 so that the first proffesional contract he signs is for you and the developing club gets squat

Actually I believe there's a regulation which stipulates what clubs have to pay if they sign young players who have developed through another clubs junior ranks so your criticism, if indeed it was such, is meaningless.
But surely you'd agree the long-term well-being of a club squad through the introduction of young players at the youth level is a better ploy than simply running out of a player through old age or injury and rushing off to pay ridiculous sums of money for a ready-made "star" who may, or may not fit in with your style of play. Seems pretty obvious to me but it requires clubs, the owners and coaches to have a long-term view which is something that few clubs or owners seem to possess. It's all instant gratification, hense the turnover of managers and indeed players, especially the so-called stars.

If Torres' goals fire Chelsea to the title and Champions League, then that £50m will seem like pittance.

jpr60 wrote:

Avfc_4eva_Sotc wrote:Yeh keep to the moral high ground, find some clubs developing players let them spend all that money on them and then go talking to the lads parents just before they hit 17 so that the first proffesional contract he signs is for you and the developing club gets squat

Actually I believe there's a regulation which stipulates what clubs have to pay if they sign young players who have developed through another clubs junior ranks so your criticism, if indeed it was such, is meaningless.
But surely you'd agree the long-term well-being of a club squad through the introduction of young players at the youth level is a better ploy than simply running out of a player through old age or injury and rushing off to pay ridiculous sums of money for a ready-made "star" who may, or may not fit in with your style of play. Seems pretty obvious to me but it requires clubs, the owners and coaches to have a long-term view which is something that few clubs or owners seem to possess. It's all instant gratification, hense the turnover of managers and indeed players, especially the so-called stars.

It wasn't a critisicm just a point of view, not nessecarily mine either, but one of many coaches around europe that has complained about big clubs doing this.

You are right that they have to pay, but the fee is decided by a committee, and I can't remember the player or club but not so long ago a team lost a young player in this very way and the committee decided on a fee which was actually far smaller then an actual bid that the club had previously turned down.

As far as spending loads of money, well we don't like to see teams buy the league (man city, chelsea). But its thier money, they can spend it as they wish, and the selling club obviously gets a good whack to help strenghen the squad as a whole with, and surely they are happy with that otherwise they wouldn't accept. I'm sure the clubs who have young talanted players snatched from them feel far more aggrieved about the whole thing though.

Carroll is 22, who says Liverpool aren't thinking long term by spending so much on him?

jpr60 wrote:Whilst some of the January-window moves will have been thought out over the weeks before much of the rumours reek of desperation, either on the part of the news media or, as in the Liverpool/Torres/Chelsea story, the clubs themselves.
OK, nobody would have foreseen Liverpool sinking so low this season, nor Chelsea taking such a dip in form for that matter but shunting ridiculous sums of money around ("Bravo" Mr Abramovitch, yet again) seems like little short of panic.
I know we ain't perfect but despite our failings (and some pretty unpleasant rants by people calling themselves Arsenal fans) I'm glad The Arsenal aren't caught up in this desperation - long may our apparent good club management continue.

Jpr its about time you lot pulled out some money for the likes of Torres or Agguero.. might help you win a trophy instead..

Can you Arsenal fans honestly say you wouldn't have liked a top notch centre half and 'keeper to have signed this month?

QBVILLA wrote:Can you Arsenal fans honestly say you wouldn't have liked a top notch centre half and 'keeper to have signed this month?

If there were a top-notch centre-back available and we'd signed him we'd be feeling less concerned about our current injury situation, I agree - likewise if we'd signed a keeper last summer we'd have been more relaxed during the first half of the season but, right now I don't see a reason for panic buying (nor do I see any available top notch centre-backs TBH). Torres to Chelsea for silly money might prove to have been worthwhile but why do it now unless there's a panic about? Panics speak of mis-management in my book - January could be a good chance to pick up a bargain or arrange a signing of someone you've been looking at who's suddenly become available but some of the stuff that's been going on of late looks to me like desperation.

Not to be to blunt but the centre halves at Arsenal are shit in comparison to the rest of the squad.Cahill or Jagielka would be a 100% improvement and you'd take Shay Given wouldn't you over Scezeny/Almunia/fabianski?

Jagielka would have been a superb signing for Arsenal last summer, but apparently Wenger would not splash the cash. QB, i'm still not 100% sure Cahill is top notch, gets caught out of position too much for my liking, though may have something to do with having Zat Knight next to him

Did I read Given may be going to Cardiff on loan, would have liked him at the Villa, though Freidels form seems to have picked up again of late.

QBVILLA wrote:Not to be to blunt but the centre halves at Arsenal are shit in comparison to the rest of the squad.Cahill or Jagielka would be a 100% improvement and you'd take Shay Given wouldn't you over Scezeny/Almunia/fabianski?

Vermaelen is a top centre-back IMO (and should be back to ensure we have a good end-of-season run-in), Djourou and Koscielny are coming on a bundle whereas I would agree that Squilacci appears to be weak. I'm a Szczesny fan and am pleased to see him putting in some good displays - I've seen Given make some howlers in the past (as most keepers do) and whilst I'd have wanted him after Mad Jens left I don't think we need him now.

jpr60 wrote:

QBVILLA wrote:Not to be to blunt but the centre halves at Arsenal are shit in comparison to the rest of the squad.Cahill or Jagielka would be a 100% improvement and you'd take Shay Given wouldn't you over Scezeny/Almunia/fabianski?

Vermaelen is a top centre-back IMO (and should be back to ensure we have a good end-of-season run-in), Djourou and Koscielny are coming on a bundle whereas I would agree that Squilacci appears to be weak. I'm a Szczesny fan and am pleased to see him putting in some good displays - I've seen Given make some howlers in the past (as most keepers do) and whilst I'd have wanted him after Mad Jens left I don't think we need him now.

Not on the wind up here but apart from Vermaelen who i agree is a class act the other centre halves are more of a mid to lower table standard.Given's mistakes are few and far between and he spent a lot of years behind a very suspect Newcastle defence.IMO signing Given and Cahill or Jagielka would have given Arsenal a real chance of winning the title.

QBVILLA wrote:

jpr60 wrote:

QBVILLA wrote:Not to be to blunt but the centre halves at Arsenal are shit in comparison to the rest of the squad.Cahill or Jagielka would be a 100% improvement and you'd take Shay Given wouldn't you over Scezeny/Almunia/fabianski?

Vermaelen is a top centre-back IMO (and should be back to ensure we have a good end-of-season run-in), Djourou and Koscielny are coming on a bundle whereas I would agree that Squilacci appears to be weak. I'm a Szczesny fan and am pleased to see him putting in some good displays - I've seen Given make some howlers in the past (as most keepers do) and whilst I'd have wanted him after Mad Jens left I don't think we need him now.

Not on the wind up here but apart from Vermaelen who i agree is a class act the other centre halves are more of a mid to lower table standard.Given's mistakes are few and far between and he spent a lot of years behind a very suspect Newcastle defence.IMO signing Given and Cahill or Jagielka would have given Arsenal a real chance of winning the title.

So you're saying we haven't got a real chance? You might be right - I know that most people don't give us a hope in hell's chance, which is good in a way - I like the "no-hoper/underdog" label, it suits my views on life in general. If it doen't work it's "See? Told you...." (your typical "Fever Pitch"-style Arsenal fan) but should it turn out well - wow, what a party (1989 at Anfield for example).

Ezekiel 25:17 wrote:If Torres' goals fire Chelsea to the title and Champions League, then that £50m will seem like pittance.

A pittance? What tripe you talk, Jesus.
If Chelsea won both they'd still return a whacking great loss that would be unsustainable for 99% of other clubs.

jak wrote:

Ezekiel 25:17 wrote:If Torres' goals fire Chelsea to the title and Champions League, then that £50m will seem like pittance.

A pittance? What tripe you talk, Jesus.
If Chelsea won both they'd still return a whacking great loss that would be unsustainable for 99% of other clubs.

They've just reported their latest loss as £70.9m - this, a club sworn to be running at breakeven 5 years after Abramovichs' arrival!!!!!!!!

jak wrote:

Ezekiel 25:17 wrote:If Torres' goals fire Chelsea to the title and Champions League, then that £50m will seem like pittance.

A pittance? What tripe you talk, Jesus.
If Chelsea won both they'd still return a whacking great loss that would be unsustainable for 99% of other clubs.

The PL has a £30m prize pot for winning it alone, I imagine the CL will be something similar. Along with the extra TV and match revenue generated from the additional games. Would you rather Arsenal turn in a profit every season, or turn in a trophy every season?

Ezekiel 25:17 wrote:

jak wrote:

Ezekiel 25:17 wrote:If Torres' goals fire Chelsea to the title and Champions League, then that £50m will seem like pittance.

A pittance? What tripe you talk, Jesus.
If Chelsea won both they'd still return a whacking great loss that would be unsustainable for 99% of other clubs.

The PL has a £30m prize pot for winning it alone, I imagine the CL will be something similar. Along with the extra TV and match revenue generated from the additional games. Would you rather Arsenal turn in a profit every season, or turn in a trophy every season?

But Chelsea posted a £70.9m loss after winning the lot last season!
Oh and to answer your question I'd rather Arsenal be managed properly, preferably turning in a profit and winning a trophy every so often. No club, outside of Scotland and Spain wins a trophy every season.

jpr60 wrote:

Ezekiel 25:17 wrote:

jak wrote:

Ezekiel 25:17 wrote:If Torres' goals fire Chelsea to the title and Champions League, then that £50m will seem like pittance.

A pittance? What tripe you talk, Jesus.
If Chelsea won both they'd still return a whacking great loss that would be unsustainable for 99% of other clubs.

The PL has a £30m prize pot for winning it alone, I imagine the CL will be something similar. Along with the extra TV and match revenue generated from the additional games. Would you rather Arsenal turn in a profit every season, or turn in a trophy every season?

But Chelsea posted a £70.9m loss after winning the lot last season!
Oh and to answer your question I'd rather Arsenal be managed properly, preferably turning in a profit and winning a trophy every so often. No club, outside of Scotland and Spain wins a trophy every season.

ABSOLUTELY !!!!!!

jpr60 wrote:

Ezekiel 25:17 wrote:

jak wrote:

Ezekiel 25:17 wrote:If Torres' goals fire Chelsea to the title and Champions League, then that £50m will seem like pittance.

A pittance? What tripe you talk, Jesus.
If Chelsea won both they'd still return a whacking great loss that would be unsustainable for 99% of other clubs.

The PL has a £30m prize pot for winning it alone, I imagine the CL will be something similar. Along with the extra TV and match revenue generated from the additional games. Would you rather Arsenal turn in a profit every season, or turn in a trophy every season?

But Chelsea posted a £70.9m loss after winning the lot last season!
Oh and to answer your question I'd rather Arsenal be managed properly, preferably turning in a profit and winning a trophy every so often. No club, outside of Scotland and Spain wins a trophy every season.

Very idealistic, but in today's transfer marker that's just not doable IMO. I don't think it's any coincidence Arsenal have been the comparatively very low spenders compared to the teams challenging around them and are years without a trophy.

I admire the way Arsenal have done business, but do think that with a couple more signings they would most certainly be at least as good as Man Ure. QB has stated the positions and think it is quite obvious. However, lets look at the spending. Carroll for £35m plus add ons or chamakh on a free in the summer, know who I would prefer in my team. Do think he should have really gone for Jagielka in the summer mind

Ezekiel 25:17 wrote:

jpr60 wrote:

Ezekiel 25:17 wrote:

jak wrote:

Ezekiel 25:17 wrote:If Torres' goals fire Chelsea to the title and Champions League, then that £50m will seem like pittance.

A pittance? What tripe you talk, Jesus.
If Chelsea won both they'd still return a whacking great loss that would be unsustainable for 99% of other clubs.

The PL has a £30m prize pot for winning it alone, I imagine the CL will be something similar. Along with the extra TV and match revenue generated from the additional games. Would you rather Arsenal turn in a profit every season, or turn in a trophy every season?

But Chelsea posted a £70.9m loss after winning the lot last season!
Oh and to answer your question I'd rather Arsenal be managed properly, preferably turning in a profit and winning a trophy every so often. No club, outside of Scotland and Spain wins a trophy every season.

Very idealistic, but in today's transfer marker that's just not doable IMO. I don't think it's any coincidence Arsenal have been the comparatively very low spenders compared to the teams challenging around them and are years without a trophy.

We've got a fantastic new stadium, a team that competes at the top level, an academy that is producing top talent and in turn helping other sides while they develop. All of which, with patience, will bear fruit in terms of trophies.
On top of which we are financially sound and have no fear of some Oligarch getting pissed off and pulling the plug.
Yet you think we should throw caution to the wind and splash out beyond our means.
Never run a business, Jesus!!!!

villanfromluton wrote:I admire the way Arsenal have done business, but do think that with a couple more signings they would most certainly be at least as good as Man Ure. QB has stated the positions and think it is quite obvious. However, lets look at the spending. Carroll for £35m plus add ons or chamakh on a free in the summer, know who I would prefer in my team. Do think he should have really gone for Jagielka in the summer mind

Of course we'd all like our teams to be splashing out on this player and that but sometimes it's not possible.
We have to accept that.

Jak, wasnt having a dig, just think Jagielka would have been a player who enhanced your team.

villanfromluton wrote:Jak, wasnt having a dig, just think Jagielka would have been a player who enhanced your team.

I really did not think you were having a dig. I would have liked us to sign Jagielka. I also agree that he would be a far better option than Cahill but there's obviously some reason why we did not try to sign a centre half. Maybe there's some business planned for the summer. I like Vermaelen, Djourou and Koscelny has done quite well when you consider he's been thrown in at the deep end. Squillacci is a problem though.

jak wrote:

villanfromluton wrote:Jak, wasnt having a dig, just think Jagielka would have been a player who enhanced your team.

I really did not think you were having a dig. I would have liked us to sign Jagielka. I also agree that he would be a far better option than Cahill but there's obviously some reason why we did not try to sign a centre half. Maybe there's some business planned for the summer. I like Vermaelen, Djourou and Koscelny has done quite well when you consider he's been thrown in at the deep end. Squillacci is a problem though.

Personally I rate Cahill higher than Jagielka and I think he'd be a better long term buy.Vermaelen aside i think at least half the other PL clubs have better centre halves.Johnson at Blues for example would've been a fairly cheap option and a great improvement on what is already there.Personally i'd like Arsenal to win it but i can see too many points being lost at the tail end of the season when the games are coming thick and fast.