Eduardo

its as certain that there was no contact as it is that adebayor stamped on Van Persie. However you wont mind then when he claims its an accident and that he isnt a dirty player and gets off?

Lets see the bias :fishing:

Avfc_4eva_Sotc wrote:its as certain that there was no contact as it is that adebayor stamped on Van Persie. However you wont mind then when he claims its an accident and that he isnt a dirty player and gets off?

Lets see the bias :fishing:

Do you know, I actually believe there is no connection whatsoever between what Eduardo was accused of doing against Celtic a few weeks back and what Adebayor did against Arsenal last weekend?
Thus, if Eduardo, having been accused and branded as a cheat by some suffers no penalty because the charges against him could not be proved it should have no bearing on the outcome of whatever is considered as appropriate punishment for Adebayor. If I were asked I would propose a maximum penalty against Adebayor for the violent conduct (a 10-match ban has been suggested elsewhere as a deterrent - I'm not sure that's within the rules but, if it is, why not?) and a slap on the wrist for his stupidity in celebrating in front of the travelling fans plus a reminder that he's lucky he didn't used to play for Millwall (as Robbo says in his BBC column).

I read Robbo's column, and the comments. Very funny......

The referee missed Eduardo's dive and the attempts to make up for that were inept at best. Diving is cheating but while we rely on one man with a whistle to oversee a game, players will always get away with it.

Adebayor is a different matter. I believe he committed an assault on Van Persie and he should be brought to book for that. The stupid celebration warranted a yellow card in itself and you can bet that something along those lines will be added to the rules next season.

jpr60 wrote:

Avfc_4eva_Sotc wrote:its as certain that there was no contact as it is that adebayor stamped on Van Persie. However you wont mind then when he claims its an accident and that he isnt a dirty player and gets off?

Lets see the bias :fishing:

Do you know, I actually believe there is no connection whatsoever between what Eduardo was accused of doing against Celtic a few weeks back and what Adebayor did against Arsenal last weekend?
Thus, if Eduardo, having been accused and branded as a cheat by some suffers no penalty because the charges against him could not be proved it should have no bearing on the outcome of whatever is considered as appropriate punishment for Adebayor. If I were asked I would propose a maximum penalty against Adebayor for the violent conduct (a 10-match ban has been suggested elsewhere as a deterrent - I'm not sure that's within the rules but, if it is, why not?) and a slap on the wrist for his stupidity in celebrating in front of the travelling fans plus a reminder that he's lucky he didn't used to play for Millwall (as Robbo says in his BBC column).

no bias then whatsoever

The sad thing with the Eduardo incident is that within the next few weeks someone will dive and win a penalty ina crucial match and UEFA didn't take their opportunity to laydown some rules to sort this problem out.

villainies wrote:The sad thing with the Eduardo incident is that within the next few weeks someone will dive and win a penalty ina crucial match and UEFA didn't take their opportunity to laydown some rules to sort this problem out.

UEFA realised that they couldn't possibly handle the charge of 'trying to deceive the referee' cos in every match on the planet players try to 'deceive the referee' on every occasion.
Ball goes out of play - players from both sides claim the throw-on or the corner-kick is for them, however, nearly always at least one player is telling porkies.
Did you happen to see Real Madrid playing last night? Twice Ronaldo went down, twice he was awarded a free-kick and twice he scored from the kick. On both occasions Ronaldo went to ground without being touched. Rooney does it, Gerrard does it, it's happening all the time. The ref either gives the foul or, should issue a yellow card for simulation - it happens some time (my mate Eboue, recently for example). UEFA just cannot handle it unless they agree to use video technology live in every match which, all over the pitch is pretty near impossible.

jpr60 wrote:

villainies wrote:The sad thing with the Eduardo incident is that within the next few weeks someone will dive and win a penalty ina crucial match and UEFA didn't take their opportunity to laydown some rules to sort this problem out.

UEFA realised that they couldn't possibly handle the charge of 'trying to deceive the referee' cos in every match on the planet players try to 'deceive the referee' on every occasion.
Ball goes out of play - players from both sides claim the throw-on or the corner-kick is for them, however, nearly always at least one player is telling porkies.
Did you happen to see Real Madrid playing last night? Twice Ronaldo went down, twice he was awarded a free-kick and twice he scored from the kick. On both occasions Ronaldo went to ground without being touched. Rooney does it, Gerrard does it, it's happening all the time. The ref either gives the foul or, should issue a yellow card for simulation - it happens some time (my mate Eboue, recently for example). UEFA just cannot handle it unless they agree to use video technology live in every match which, all over the pitch is pretty near impossible.

So cheating is ok? UEFA could've started up something about diving in the penalty area without interupting the flow of the game. If a player does it and its as obvious as Eduardo was then he gets a ban. I know other players do it but that is the whole point, it only stops if something is done about it. Sadly UEFA handled it all wrong from the start.

What we've learnt from this thread is that cheating is despicable unless it benefits your own club. If Eduardo were a player of any other club JPR would as a rational and decent bloke would be calling him a cheat, but he plays for his beloved Arsenal so he'll defend him.I for one wouldn't give two hoots if england win the World Cup from a penalty which stemmed from a dive.Is it right? No, but that really isn't the issue.

QBVILLA wrote:What we've learnt from this thread is that cheating is despicable unless it benefits your own club. If Eduardo were a player of any other club JPR would as a rational and decent bloke would be calling him a cheat, but he plays for his beloved Arsenal so he'll defend him.I for one wouldn't give two hoots if england win the World Cup from a penalty which stemmed from a dive.Is it right? No, but that really isn't the issue.

I dont think UEFA can ever punish anyone for a dive now.. And your right about defedning your own.. It was a blatant dive.. You can sit here for weeks debating that was Eduardo touched.. but simple fact is he dived.. Arsenal couldve been bigger then this and just taken the punishment becuase since then a few people have been booked but that wont happen anymore.. i can see Arsenal losing a big decision which costs them a vital game.. What goes around..

And your right.. if England won the world cup with a dive.. yes its not ideal but realistically 95% of people wouldnt give a feck including me..

They should bring back hanging.

Look, I know this is boring but my problem with the Eduardo thing was not that he took a tumble, with or without help, but the fact that everyone and his uncle was up in arms about it. 'CHEAT'-'SHOULD BE BANNED'-'BAD INFLUENCE ON KIDS' etc etc and this after we have had a few seasons of Ronaldo falling over at every opportunity at ManU, not to mention Rooney going down when it suits him, likewise Gerrard, Drogba, you name them.
Because of all the media fuss UEFA boldly stepped in and said 'Right, we'll make an example of him' and slapped a ludicrous charge of 'trying to deceive the referee' on him. If they had charged him with 'simulation' or whatever it is they usually refer to when someone takes a dive it would have been straight-forward, but no, he had to be doing something far more devious than that otherwise they couldn't have charged him anyway cos the ref had already seen the act and made a decision. That's what Arsenal defended, the fact that somehow UEFA thought they could prove that Eduardo intended to 'deceive the referee' - if they could then they'd be obliged to slap bans on any number of players in every match at every level from here on in. Ronaldo would have picked up two two-match bans on his performance last night alone!
That's the problem - Eduardo is no more or less a cheat than anyone else playing football, that's the truth of the matter.
OH yes, on the subject I watched Inzaghi play against Marseille last night too. 36 years old, a six-yard-box-hanging-goalscoring-genious, love him or hate him (I hate him) but he showed what a fully-fledged cheat can obtain in a match in one impressive cameo. He had the ball at his feet against the by-line with a Marseille defender on his back - he was going nowhere so he reached round the defender, tugged on the back of his shirt therefore pulling the defender onto himself and then fell forward - free kick against the defender who looked on open-mouthed - impressive. Still, I suppose it was the Italians that invented cheating in football but Inzaghi is a master!

Inzaghi used a bit of gamesmanship to turn a situation to his advantage, not something to be proud of but it's legal. Also, I think he's one of the best strikers ever to have played. To still be playing and scoring regularly at his age is an amazing feat. Eduardo simulated being fouled despite no contact in order to win a penalty and completely end the game as a contest. Far far worse.

Ezekiel 25:17 wrote:Inzaghi used a bit of gamesmanship to turn a situation to his advantage, not something to be proud of but it's legal. Also, I think he's one of the best strikers ever to have played. To still be playing and scoring regularly at his age is an amazing feat. Eduardo simulated being fouled despite no contact in order to win a penalty and completely end the game as a contest. Far far worse.

Don't be so silly. What's the difference between 'gamesmanship' and 'cheating'? None whatsoever.
Yes, I admire Inzaghi (I'm surprised he's still out there and doing it - he hasn't changed in ten years and still manages to crack in two excellently taken goals) but he is a massive cheat! Thing is he's so sneaky you have to admire him - apparently the French commentators were lauding his actions, against their player - normally the French are so chauvanistic a simple tackle is a red card, but here they were praising Inzaghi - amazing!

Gamesmanship isn't against the rules.

Ezekiel 25:17 wrote:Gamesmanship isn't against the rules.

:jpr60: :loser:

JPR your argument seems to be based around the fact its been going on for a while so we have to turn a blind eye. This wasn't happening anywhere near as much when I started watching football and I'm sure even less when you started. Someone has to take a stand at some point surely?

villainies wrote:JPR your argument seems to be based around the fact its been going on for a while so we have to turn a blind eye. This wasn't happening anywhere near as much when I started watching football and I'm sure even less when you started. Someone has to take a stand at some point surely?

I disagree with this completely.Cheating/diving/gamesmanship whatever you want to call it has always gone on.The only difference now is the amount of television coverage we get.We get to see it from all different camera angles.Rodney Marsh,Franny Lee and Trevor Francis were all diving in the 70s.Like it or not cheating is very much part and parcel of football

I remember Trevor Francis falling over Andy Gray during 76/77 season at the sty to get a penalty, tosser that he was :brick:. One of the best performances ever saw from Andy Gray, he played an hour at centre half after Leighton Phillips was sent off. There have always been divers

villainies wrote:JPR your argument seems to be based around the fact its been going on for a while so we have to turn a blind eye. This wasn't happening anywhere near as much when I started watching football and I'm sure even less when you started. Someone has to take a stand at some point surely?

You forget I was there to witness the arrival of Don Revie's Leeds United in the old First Division. I have never before, or since witnessed professional cheating and dirty play on such a grand scale. The odd 'dive' isn't a touch on what used to go on, believe me.

QBVILLA wrote:

villainies wrote:JPR your argument seems to be based around the fact its been going on for a while so we have to turn a blind eye. This wasn't happening anywhere near as much when I started watching football and I'm sure even less when you started. Someone has to take a stand at some point surely?

I disagree with this completely.Cheating/diving/gamesmanship whatever you want to call it has always gone on.The only difference now is the amount of television coverage we get.We get to see it from all different camera angles.Rodney Marsh,Franny Lee and Trevor Francis were all diving in the 70s.Like it or not cheating is very much part and parcel of football

Off the ball stuff/ dirty tackling and all that definitely but diving no way. Nohwere near as much as today, except maybe the cockneys of course but they're aways cheating! :fishing:

The worst diver I saw was Francis Lee, closely followed by the likes of Trevor Francis, Bowles & Rodney Marsh. There certainly was diving, not as much as these days, but still it was around.

villanfromluton wrote:The worst diver I saw was Francis Lee, closely followed by the likes of Trevor Francis, Bowles & Rodney Marsh. There certainly was diving, not as much as these days, but still it was around.

Rubbish, you dirty cheatin tuncs nearly ended his career